Let’s Discuss…About When Spirituality Intervenes
I know a guy, an acquaintance, who has a family of…well, seers. His mother and his sister. Driven by the ‘Holy Spirit’, they dream about things, things that are happening or could happen, so they can use the foreknowledge to better the present. This acquaintance of mine says it is this gift of these women in his family that has helped his father’s career over the years and sustained their family.
And he’s currently distraught. His ‘Holy Spirit’ sister – in the same vein as his mother did years ago – called him to inform him that she was warned in one of her dreams to ask him to stop homosexuality. According to her, it was the second time the premonition was coming up in her dream. Now, he isn’t out of the closet. So of course, he laughed away his sister’s fears and assured her that he is not a homosexual.
But he is still distraught, caught up in that vortex where he’s asking the question: ‘If my sexuality isn’t wrong, then why is my spiritual family getting warnings in their dreams and being told to ask me to quit being gay? Does that mean my sexuality is bad, and continuing being gay portends evil for me in future?’
This isn’t the first person I’ve encountered who was put in the position to have these fears, to ask these questions. I had a friend, who liked men and had a family. His daughter took ill at some point, very ill, the kind of ailment that had doctors puzzled. And his family pastor called him to his office and told him he’d seen in his dream that my friend was sinning the most horrific of sins (Yes, homosexuality is right up there with murder and coveting another man’s wife). And the pastor told him this sin was the reason his daughter was suffering. Quit it, the pastor said, and she’ll be well again.
Nigeria is a nation of spirituality and religion. We tend to always draw parallels between our troubles and joys with things of the spirit. And so, it is to be expected for those who ‘commune’ with the ‘Holy Spirit’ to wake up from revelations that that brother or sister is gay and sinful, and will suffer, if not already so, for it. Sometimes, as a cynical me tends to get, I wonder if these revelations are genuine, and if these ‘seers’ are not just acting on suspicions. If that isn’t so, why are we plagued by proponents of the spiritual realm?
And so, guys, I’d like us to talk about it. Let’s discuss . . . about when spirituality intervenes.
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35 Comments
Absalom
July 05, 06:03Ok, today’s topic is for people into the supernatural/spiritual; I’m not. Anything wey no be 1 1 = 2, I hands off abeg…
Though I used to have that fear that someone who’s “close to god” (priests, nuns, prayer warriors) can tell I’m gay once I’m with them. Never happened.
Obatala
July 05, 06:27lol
that totally happens to me too.
I even started avoiding some of our prayer warriors
I still do
chestnut
July 05, 10:01OMG! I thought I was d only one! Whenever I see a “prayer warrior” that allegedly has “seeing” abilities,I start feeling some type of way.lol. I remember one time, an aunty of mine( with whom I’m very close) went to T.B Joshua’s Synagogue in lagos.when she came back,I got a desperate-sounding message that she wanted to discuss something very serious with me,but I had to come to her house,as it wasn’t a matter she felt we should discuss over d fone. Of course,my mind started shooting of in different directions;I was convinced that I had been “exposed” by a prophet who had never even seen me! After many days,I was finally able to convince another aunt to tell me what was up.it turned out that d issue was that my aunt,after her visit to d synagogue,had some sot of epiphany that made her decide to relocate from abj to owerri. I almost cried with relief when I heard it,lol.
Obatala
July 05, 14:59but chestnut o, just wondering. I really don’t know any one who has been outed by a prophet. Have you?
chestnut
July 05, 15:50Nah,I don’t know anyone who has been outed by a prophet.but I do hear scary stories of people whose “bidness” are announced in church by “Men of God,while under d annointing”. I once heard of a crusade or revival or something in my skool,where a young (teenage)”prophet”,during d praise and worship session,put a male student on blast; called him by name from d pulpit and said: “(insert name here),THE LORD SAID YOU MUST QUIT MASTURBATION!!!!!”. Lol, I heard d young man vehemently denied o!
pinkpanthertb
July 06, 02:42And such an embarrassment, publicly telling someone to denounce a private hell, is what the ‘Lord’ intended? Mschewww! Such things are what incurs my disdain for such ‘men of god under the anointing’.
Dennis Macauley
July 05, 06:29Religions all through history has been used to perpetuate some of the worst hate crimes, so what is happening is not strange. Nigeria is a third world country with all its failures so people see the desperate need to believe in the divine and hope that such “faith” delivers them from whatever situation they are facing.
I happen to be a christian, even though I am mostly cynical but I believe that there are depths to God that we cannot comprehend. If you have read the Bible, remember that God described David as “a man after my own heart”. This was a man who desired a woman and because of that had her husband killed so he could take her. My point is that there are shades of grey that we cannot fully comprehend.
I had a ex that I loved who walked away. He was having some setbacks in life (at the time he kept failing JAMB and couldn’t secure admission) and he decided that being gay was the cause so he didn’t want to be gay anymore. I let him go, but even after turning straight (as it were) he still had those set backs.
Ultimately religious robs people of objectivity and the ability to reason logically. At the end of the day God has not told anyone that homosexuality is wrong, and if God spoke to you then ask your Doctor if Prozac is good for you.
pinkpanther
July 06, 02:43This is a comment in which I am well pleased.
daus
July 05, 06:45The problem is not the revelation but the interpretation of what is revealed. These so called spiritual gim gim having the fore knowledge that homosexuality is a sin drawn from their believe, always attribute normal physical occurances to the fact that they are happening becos one is gay. yes, no doubt they saw it in their dreams or where ever but the interpretation is soley from their understanding of the word ” Homosexual”
anonymous
July 05, 07:04‘If my sexuality isn’t wrong, then why is my spiritual family getting warnings in their dreams and being told to ask me to quit being gay? Does that mean my sexuality is bad, and continuing being gay portends evil for me in future?’.
Like duh! If u r truly a xtian, ur bible says it’s wrong. Ugh!
But seriously, wouldn’t it be all so convenient if all LGTB folks become aethiest? I mean, religion judges us so hard, what else can we do to ease the guilt? Turn our backs on it and term all it says crap and call it all sorts but truly somewhere deep down our ‘hate’ for religion and the many strong words we’ve spoken/written again religion, just somewhere down the guilt still lingers and we know the truth *sighs it’s not an easy something being LGTB I swear! And yet some ppl make it sound like it’s a choice, plain ignorance cus I ask who would happily choose a life he can’t be free to live in the open without being hated on or judged?
*downs large gulp of vodka
Chizzie
July 05, 07:37As much as I try to be logical at times; every now and then the idea of the existence of a spirit/astral world seems legit to me. There are certain paranormal experiences that defy science and logic and make u begin to wonder if perhaps the Bible was right abt certain things. Like the one time I had a very terrifying out of body experience, or the one time as a child I was so convinced that our housemaid was a witch and no one else believed me till finally she came in a grotesque spirit form late one night and tried to kill my mum while she was wide awake ( an experience my mum still recounts in fear), or the other time I was looking for something (my hairbrush) for ages and then finally I had a rather vivid dream of where it was and I woke up and found it exactly where I’d dreamed it was
So Yes I believe in the existence of a spirit world; and as for the idea of homosexuality having spiritual implications; I think this principle isn’t just exclusive to homosexuality. Everything we do good or bad resonates in the spirit realm and we reap the rewards of such in the physical world. So in essence lets try and do much of good..If you are gay be a nice, giving, hard working one and perhaps you’ll reap more of good. That’s how I see it
Chuck
July 05, 10:36These experiences you are describing are a form of hallucination, see more here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience
It’s an illusion, just a trick of the brain.
JustJames
July 05, 07:47Shortly after my mum found out I liked guys someone called her to tell her one of her children is being attacked by some spiritual forces. That they wanted to take me away. That it was the second born (me). My mum told me and assimed it was cause i was gay. That really shook me but I didn’t pray to stop being gay however. I realised looooong time ago that it’s futile. I did pray that God protect me and my family though and here I am… alive and well.
God is caring and loving God. He will not afflict pain on any human. That’s the job for the devil and our fellow humans. So I believe if something “spiritual” is happening and it’s bad instead of disturbing your head about your gayness why don’t you ask God to deal with it for you. That’s what me I think sha *chews on chewing stick*
Dennis Macauley
July 05, 08:24Dreams are often a product of your thought pattern during the day. So if you spend the whole day thinking about your brother being gay and all, chances are that you will have such a “revelation” in the dream. Where is the Psychiatrist, help me out here!!!
trystham
July 05, 08:33Well, if the pastor says its because of his homosexuality his daughter is ill, then good for him. If he has extra-marital affairs, what he gets is what he deserves. I just hope he hasn’t infected the poor girl with HIV. Have I said enough that I dislike men like those?
But beyond all this, the very scary thing is the Bible says judgement will ALSO be based on your thoughts. I think we have already established that marrying will not save from thinking about boys. So for the family of seers, stopping homosexuality acts will not just end his troubles. He has to clean his thots as well. And we more than any other person know how many personal deliverance sessions we have undergone to deliver our dirty, evil minds.
Oh well *shrugs*, I fear for my mortal soul
pinkpanther
July 06, 02:46Hehehee. such a tough spot to consider.
Absalom
July 05, 08:47You see why I dodge these kinds of conversations? (lol) Personally, I don’t remember having had a spiritual-esque experience. I think right from when I was a child, I have always been skeptical about the unseen or unexplainable. I wasn’t vocal about many of my curiosities, else I’m sure the adults in my life would have conspired to sell me off for a pair of slippers. I’ve always been that person who, if a friend is sick, I ask if he is taking medication; prayer (an invocation of the unseen to intervene) hardly crosses my mind. Maybe because I grew up in a home where my mother would reach for her medicine bag first before reaching for a bible. Growing up Catholic may have contributed too (you know how tepid we can be with these spiri-koko things, unlike the Pentecostals) It’s one major reason why I know my sexual orientation has nothing to do with my stand on faith; I’d have left church anyway. I think I was born irreligious (lol).
I’m not saying I have all the answers, I’m just saying I steer clear of unexplainable things; at least the empirical cause-and-effect relationships of life STILL work for me. Fingers crossed till something gives.
trystham
July 05, 09:59I don’t think we were born irreligious.In my quest to define who I was sexually, I asked around, I realised that gay guys grew up to be more spiritually attuned. I think at some point, you lost hope in the fact that some Supreme Being would deliver you from your societal anomaly, and got jaded along the way.
Chuck
July 05, 10:46hi trystham, I don’t think all gay guys grow up spiritually more attuned. it depends on your religious upbringing – religion is a social construct, that is why the children of Muslims are muslims and the children of Christians are Christians (unless they ocnvert later in life). It’s about how you were raised. If your parents didn’t bother with all of that chances are you wouldn’t either.
As for the spiritual attunement, if you are religious, and you notice you have feelings that your religion views as an abomination, then you will try harder at religion to compensate. It’s not some gay people have spiritual genes thing, it’s just a reaction to a desire that your religion forbids. That’s why you have choir masters and prayer leaders who are gay. They play larger roles in the Church etc in their search to resolve their homosexuality and its conflicts with heir religious beliefs.
waitinForMyArabianPrince
July 05, 10:21pinkie…. I just wore my 5th kito….n my parents are still in denial…..dazz all…bye
pinkpanther
July 06, 02:48Lol! Would you like to share? 🙂
Khaleesi
July 05, 10:45Tough topic! Closely linked to the question about whether being gay is bad/unnatural or natural/normal. I personally dont have too much use for religion, i firmly believe that its a bundle of fantasy,contradictions,lies and illogicality all infused with opium-esque qualities and with which the masses r manipulated, dominated & controlled. I do however believe in the existence of a supreme being who has in his infonote wisdom and for reasons best know to him decided that some of us be gay(whether you feel inferior,superior, equal or something in between is largely due to your circumstances abd beliefs). For the persons have seers or soothsayers as siblings, I think its simply a case of their eyes seeing a thing while their mind refuses to believe and then they express and rationalise it in their dreams.so perhaps, if the writer was not gay, but was a serial, unrepentant womaniser, would his sister have had these alarming dreams? The earlier we learn to love, accept and find some measure of peace within ourselves, the better for us (yours truly included)
Blaq Jaqs
July 05, 13:32I’ve had an experience like this once… I remember being dragged to church by an Aunt once. And after the praying session, the Pastor comes forward and says he has received a revelation, how there was a homosexual in their midst and God wanted ‘it’ to come forward and be unburdened of the evil. I had three options then, pack my shit and run for the streets and leave my Aunt confused, walk to the pulpit and kneel and have some man speak in some strange mumbo jumbo and rid me of this ‘demon’ or stand there slightly scared, disgusted and confused as to what exactly this meant. Fate or Coincidence?
I chose the third one. Stayed the entire length of the service but was sure that would be the last time I step into that church. I shared it with a couple of friends after that but we could never draw a logical conclusion.
A few years later and here I am. Nothing strange has happened. No particular occurrence I can tie to this demon of mine I’ve had my fair share of good and bad, triumphs and disappointments, like every other young adult out there. I never tie any of it to my sexuality.
And when things don’t go as expected, I try another way and if it doesn’t work then it means it isn’t time or it isn’t meant to be. Never because I’m Gay.
Interestingly I would say adultery and fornication would be the sin here. Not sexuality. Because it isn’t a choice. At least that’s how I see it…
sensuousensei
July 05, 22:00I once heard a story about a certain man of god in lagos who was attacked verbally by a certain woman. In response, he just laughed and called her “insane”. According to the gist, she became insane immediately. Now for those of you who believe such “giftings” exist, was this man’s action biblical? Let’s look at the example of Jesus. One time the apostles asked Jesus if they could call down fire to consume some people who didn’t welcome him. He turned and rebuked them saying,”do you not know what spirit ye are of? For the son of man came to save life…not destroy it”.
Today, we hear people calling down fire to burn and destroy witches and wizards. Jesus is not here to stop them. So the prayer works because “the gifts and callings of god are without repentance”. Does it make it right? No.
So if someone has power, they have power. God cannot control how they use it. Similarly, if someone can “see”, they can see. God cannot control how the apportion meaning to what they see.
And its not enough to call an “out of body” experience a hallucination. Science has not proven it to be. Infact science doesn’t not even fully underastand what a hallucination is. There is so much that is not known. Instead of just explaining away what we don’t know, its better to let our jaws drop in amazement, allow ourselves to wonder and eagerly seek to understand. It is with this attitude we will unravel the mysteries of the universe.
pinkpanthertb
July 06, 02:40In other words…? I’m sorry, I’m befuddled at what point you are trying to drive home in relation to someone insinuating that there’s evil attached to one’s life simply on the basis of his sexuality.
sensuousensei
July 06, 22:23What I’m trying to say is that a person’s gift can tell him/her about one’s secrets but his/her CONDITIONED MIND still has to interprete whether this secret is a SIN or NOT. In other words, the gift gives vision and not understanding about good and evil.
Obatala
July 06, 05:26Lil. that’s ridiculous. anyway, it reminds me of a story my prof. once told of an impotent man who followed his wife to church on a red letter Sunday. Turns out the pastor had a special healing session that day for sick people. From the pulpit, he beamed a divine command for everyone to hold wherever their infirmities lay. well, yoga decided to place his hand on his tool codedly since he was sitting at a quite hidden location. A second directive came for all sick people to stand up while holding their areas of special interest. Yoga at first vehemently refused until he saw that scorching glare from madam. oh oh. he had no choice but to stand sheepishly. Apparently, a third esoteric Reich ordered MOG to order this special group to the front of the mega church and face the audience so they could pray for them. It was at this point yoga did a double take and decided, while racing out of the church that perhaps, there could be an alternate medical solution to such problems.
Obatala
July 06, 05:31sorry for day railing the thread just thought I should share something funny I thought about. and kindly replace all yogas with oga. predictive input wahala.
lluvmua
July 07, 00:47Na wa oooo I once heard of a guy whom his parents once caught having sex with his boyfriend and they took him to tb joshua. During the deliverance, they said that a snake possessed the boy and made him gay and that he has been delivered. And after some years , this guy is still as gay as ever! . As 4 mua, I don’t think your sexuality has anything to do with what ever u go through or achieve in life period!!!
sensuousensei
July 07, 08:45This killed me! Snake spirit indeed. Lool
lluvmua
July 07, 00:50#forgive my grammatical blunders if any
Lothario
July 07, 15:19Like Absalom, I stay away from spiritual discussions. I love God, and that’s all there is to me….all of these sights and visions usually leave me stunned.
I had a relationship that ended because my boyfriend’s aunt saw a vision of him dying of HIV if he continues doing the ‘bad’ things he’s doing, apparently, since I was the only one fucking him at the time, he believed I was definitely going to be the purveyor of the dreaded HIV. When he mentioned why he wanted to end our relationship, I just didn’t have the strength to argue. I probably wasn’t worth the stress if he could think of dumping me that fast.
All these things are just ridiculous on some levels, but don’t discourage anyone who believes them. Everyone needs something to believe in.
pinkpanthertb
July 07, 15:32Everyone needs something to believe in.
I love that line.
I love God. I believe in His supremacy. What I have scorn for however are the people who attempt to represent Him. I’ve encountered too many indiscrepancies in people to get cynical whenever men endeavour to step into God’s shoes.
Step
July 08, 16:41A lot of comments really made sense to me. Religion is not by force. If you want to be an atheist then It’s fine. We all quote the Scriptures to fit our purpose and what we want to hear but not what God really wants us to hear. We all are adults and should be able to discern right from wrong. If you are a Christian, you take the entirety of the Scriptures and not the part you feel comfortable with. I have had my own fair share of “revelation” and it came from the aunt i didn’t expect. Even my most spiritual family member hasn’t sensed anything. I ended up avoiding my aunt for a while but that didn’t stop her from loving me. She didn’t bring it up again. She didn’t tell it to anyone else. She respected me as an adult. So It’s left for me to make the right call. Christianity says It’s a sin. We know Jesus is all loving and all. That was his mission. To bring us into an era of grace. But should we continue in sin that grace may abide? When he healed or delivered, he will say “go and sin no more.” The story of the woman caught in adultery is a perfect one. For you to be saved, you need to be all for Christ and not partly. As it is, I’m he’ll bound
Koteh
July 09, 07:45Religion and Sexuality are two cross roads…that’s why i chose to read the Queen James Version….