Let’s Discuss about…Parenting And Children
So, in a private LGBT chat forum, a fellow chat-roommate uploaded the picture below, adding the caption: ‘God knows I won’t let my son do this… Would you?’
And the comments that followed his post came as follows. (I’ll represent the different commenters with two distinguishing alphabets)
*
WU: I’m curious, what would be your reason for not letting your son do this?
CA: Why would this toddler be allowed to make choices already? *smh* Ndi ocha and their weird ways…
WU: It’s Halloween. The toddler didn’t say he wanted to have a transgender surgery.
CA: Na so e dey start. Tomorrow, he will choose to go to school with heels. Mbok!
WU: Lol. smh
BM: It’s Halloween, so the kid gets to pick the costume.
TN: You guys sef. It’s called dress-up, in Halloween, you dress like whoever you want or like.
CA: Calm down missy. I know what Halloween is.
WU: Are you sure? Cos you seem to think Halloween is the gateway to your pikin turning into Caitlyn Jenner.
CA: *In Uche Elendu’s voice* Hian! Amam biko!
CA: And no pikin of mine is turning into Caitlyn Jenner. Even if you have to be gay, you have to be mando biko. Do your runs in coded manner. I can’t deal!
*
It was at this point that I decided to share this chat on Kito Diaries, for us to talk about these issues – parenting, children, the unconditional nature of the love family is supposed to have versus the instinct for self-preservation of family members.
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110 Comments
Chizzie
October 17, 07:56Well yes i do agree with the CA person, I don’t think parents should be too liberal with thier kids, because at the end of they day, they are kids and you are the adult here, the more responsible and wiser one.
As a parent it is your responsibility to guide your kids, and instill particular principles in them, one of the most important of which is self restraint. Just because a child feels like doing something doesn’t mean you give the child the go ahead to do it. You need to learn to say no to your kids from time to time, let them know that every decision you make for them is out of love and for thier own benefit
And to be honest, I wouldn’t be too thrilled if my child ended up transgendered either. No parent wants that. It’s fine if you’re gay, but I certainly wouldn’t encourage gender identity crisis issues in my child or children
Pink Panther
October 17, 07:58Even when your refusal to encourage such comes to the detriment of their self esteem? #justasking
Max
October 17, 11:19These principles you speak of @Chizzie, what impact has it made in your own life?(I’m assuming your parents taught you such principles).
Chizzie
October 17, 12:20Alot actually, for starters to have my own distinct opinion and stick by it and not conform to mass consensus or typical reasoning like most of you lot here ?, to only apologize when i mean it or at best, fake an apology in the event that it is absolutely necessary, and to select friends based on what i stand to gain from them.
And i’ll certainly instill the same principles on my child.
kacee
October 17, 08:14Omg he is so cute, God knows i’ll let my son or daughter do it a trillion time. Everytime they call God they won’t allow the Big Man to rest.
what is Mando PP?
Pink Panther
October 17, 08:17Lol. A crude slang for ‘straight acting’.
GOld
October 17, 08:22I think a line should be drawn.parents are there for guidance.I agree with what Chizzie said.
Even if some times children may not agree with it,you sit them down and talk to them about it..
If my parents allowed me to do everything I wanted to do when I was little,I dunno where I’d be now.
GOld
October 17, 08:23I don’t mind my child dressing that way though.I think it’s cool.
But not all decisions they make must be accepted by me.
JustJames
October 17, 08:29I think this is treating the issue like being trans is not an inborn thing.. Like it’s something we can discipline away. Look what the suppression of our sexuality from fear of disappointing family and friends did to our minds. Years that could have been spent being happy spent fretting and worrying and being in denial.
I wouldn’t be thrilled if my child wanted to dress up but that’d be because I’d be scared for him or her.. And also cause I don’t know what it would be like to father a trans child.
And about principles.. Maybe this father is teaching his son to be brave enough to be who he wants to be? It all depends on how you look at it and how you look at it is a reflection of what’s really in your heart.
I admire the father’s bravery.. Not easy to accept your son wants to dress up as a girl.
And biko.. Just cause he’s dressing up doesn’t mean he wants to become a girl. I wore momma’s heels and made ugly gowns from wrappers and look at me.. Still as much a male as the next person.
People need to calm down small…
Pink Panther
October 17, 08:31My standpoint exactly! James, you just furrowed in my mind and printed what I was thinking.
kacee
October 17, 08:50James where can i kiss you?
Mandy
October 17, 08:32PP, you’re part of this chat, aren’t you? becos I suspect which one is your initial. lol
Pink Panther
October 17, 08:32LOL. *keeping mum*
#Chestnut
October 17, 08:32*waiting for errbody on KD to come here and say they would let their 6-year old son dress as a princess in public everyday of the week if he wanted, cos they’re so progressive and advanced and don’t give a fuck what anyone else says* (hi Dennis,how u doin?)
Pink Panther
October 17, 08:33Your sarcasm is just messy, Chestnut. LOL
#Chestnut
October 17, 08:39Sarcasm? I know not what u speak of,good sir.
Pink Panther
October 17, 08:42Right. And Kim Davis is about to officiate a gay wedding.
kacee
October 17, 08:52HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Dennis Macaulay
October 17, 09:07I don’t have a remote interest in kids and parenting, I only tolerate the kids I am related to and I have zero interest in having any kids, so I would probably skip on this.
**hey chestnut**
But on second thought, I was raised amongst 8 other kids and I remember us playing “police and thief” with water guns, I also remember my superman and batman costume that daddy dearest bought for me and my brothers.
Fast forward 2015 I am neither a policeman, an armed robber, batman or superman.
Need I say more?
pete
October 17, 09:11Parenting topic! Time to pick up some parenting tips *picks pen & paper*
Francis
October 17, 10:00Transphobia, hate for effeminate gays topped with IH. This isi aki just managed to turn down my mood this morning! Mschew!
#Chestnut
October 17, 10:03U didn’t really answer d question though.
Francis
October 17, 10:18I’ve never had the desire to have kids. They are too much work and there’s a FAT chance I’ll suppress their development just like mine was done.
If I were forced, I would negotiate a middle ground with the kid just like I saw one do on YouTube months back. Actually the kid came to that decision himself, he plays the part in the public and at home he’s free to do whatever he likes … until such a time when he’s emotionally able to face the world.
jodek
October 17, 10:06all this FEAR!, when a child just wanted to wear a costume for Halloween! I honestly think we over analyze and project our fears on these kids to much!
Dennis Macaulay
October 17, 11:09Where can I kiss you?
You spoke my mind
Dimkpa
October 17, 10:17It never ceases to amaze me how intolerance rears its head in issues like this. One would have thought that as people who are different we would be able to empathise with people like us on the fringe of society. I see a situation where in the unlikely event we as gay men gain acceptance we would join the calvary in condemning others.
Being a parent does not give anyone a right to define your child’s life. That is the source of a lot of problems children and teenagers face. Guidance should be provided but the guidance has to be based on knowledge. Unfortunately, especially in Nigeria, people think that once you are able to ejaculate or carry a pregnancy to term then wisdom on how to raise a child is somehow conferred on you. Think for a moment that every subject in this earth has been studied including child psychology. Scientists have studied how best to communicate with children, techniques for learning etc. How many parents have bothered to look up such information when preparing for the fruit of the womb.
On this issue of gender we should be careful when calling any child a boy or girl. The fact that someone is born with a certain type of genitalia does not mean he will conform to the gender roles. There are cases of children with intersex disorders whose organs can’t be identified as either male or female. What usually happens in the boy-crazed Nigerian society is to call the child a boy only for him to later grow breasts at puberty. All ‘his’ protestations at wanting to wear a dress would be suppressed.
I read recently of a village in the Dominican Republic where some children called guevedoces turn from girls to boys at the age of 12. The interesting thing about them is that the kids always felt they were boys despite being raised as girls until the transformation. You can imagine the struggle they go through before their feelings are finally validated.
I have seen documentaries of transgender kids some less than 5 years who absolutely know that they are not the gender they have been assigned.
This has made me realise that, just like with computers where a software determines how the hardware functions, some humans are born with a mismatch of the genital hardware and the software to make it function. Should they now suffer for that?
Boys will be boys and vice versa. Some of us may remember the poem
“What are little boys made of?
Snips and snails and puppy dog tails…
What are little girls made of?
Sugar and spice and all things nice…”
The question is this, if a male child likes the rough and tumble, playing with sticks and stones, jumpimg about and testing his strength, is that because he was told he is a boy or is it a nature inherent in him? On the other hand if a girl likes to play with flowers and doll babies, is it from nature or nurture?
This is the answer given by Melvin Konner, an anthropologist in a recent interview for BBC Focus Magazine
“I had a more classical, modern, liberal view of sex differences when I was very young. I thought there were no important contributions of biology to the differences in male and female psychology and behaviour. I thought all of the differences were due to cultural influences of upbringing and media and so on. But after doing research on child development in Botswana among the Bushmen, and comparing them with preschool children in London, I saw the sex difference in physical aggression – hitting, kicking, wrestling and so on – was there in both places. Then I started to rethink the question and learned a lot more about the genetic and hormonal differences between males and females. I came to the conclusion that there are a limited number of areas of behaviour where biology can help to explain the differences.”
I think these all point to the fact that we should be careful when assigning a gender to a child especially if the said child is exhibiting behaviour that is contrary to the one given. We don’t know everything about gender yet.
A parent can hope his/her child is not gay or transgender or intersex just like they can hope they don’t give birth to children with Down’s syndrome or ,like I have heard one woman say, who are albinos. However what they can’t do is to make that child’s life a living hell when it is not the case. No one chooses to be how they are and the least a parent should do is love and support their offspring the best they can, as they make their way through life.
Another thing I have heard people say often is that children should be shielded from same sex parents, or not be encouraged when they don’t conform to gender roles. They say this forgetring that most fabulous men and women where raised by straight couples. If being raised by a straight couple doesn’t make one straight, then being raised by a gay couple doesn not make one gay. These are inborn and nothing can change that.
Pink Panther
October 17, 11:00Wow, Dimkpa. Just WOW!
#Chestnut
October 17, 11:20@Dimkpa: u didn’t really answer the question though. Ok,let’s assume it’s not halloween or a costume party, just a regular kids birthday,and ur son wanted to go dressed as Elsa,what would u do?
Max
October 17, 11:31#LongSpoonWeilder @chestnut stop it!!, just stop it!!.
I enjoyed playing dress up in girls clothes too!!. I didn’t grow up to be a transgender. Heck, I don’t even feel like wearing a dress or putting on a g-string.
What will be will be, it doesn’t matter if they dress up as Elsa or Peter Pan.
#Chestnut
October 17, 12:37Hahaha! Max,I promise u,I’m not trying to wield any spoon here. I never said anything about dress-up leading to being transgender either. I get ur point,yet no one has given a direct “yes” or “no” answer to my question: would u,in d interest of allowing ur child to express his true personality/sexuality, allow ur 6 year old son to wear a dress everyday and everywhere,if he wanted to. I think I might have to dare ppl to give a “yes” or “no” answer to dis question.
Dimkpa
October 17, 11:40The point I was trying to make is that it isn’t wrong to follow a child’s lead because we don’t always know. People may talk and all but I believe a child primarily seeks the approval of his parents, once he/she has that he/she will thrive.
#Chestnut
October 17, 12:40So Dimpka,ur answer is “yes,u would”?
Francis
October 17, 12:44Wetin you wan carry the data of this your survey do? Make person see whether charges go apply.
#Chestnut
October 17, 12:50Lol…Francis na research I dey do.
Max
October 17, 11:27#NewHeartThrobAlert ???????????????
Name– Dimkpa
Williams
October 18, 08:46Max,I’m still very much around.Please leave my Dimkpa alone!!
sensei
October 17, 12:28You are absolutely amazing! *applause*
Oluwadamilare Okoro
October 17, 10:25Will I allow this and let him be ridiculed? I doubt.
What we should teach our children is to be able to use their intellect to make wise (I don’t believe in right and wrong) decisions… And guide them through it while the are still kids.
*my “son” is 7 BTW*
Dennis Macaulay
October 17, 10:55It’s a Halloween costume!
Nobody is ridiculed for wearing a costume
Oluwadamilare Okoro
October 17, 13:27Emphasis on doubt.
… And I had to chill a while on that line before sending … Because we don’t REALLY celebrate Halloween here in Nigeria … So I am speaking from a Nigerian’s perspective as to if my son wants to dress this way …. I don’t have a prob with him dressing this way, just that I will seriously think about it.
Max
October 17, 11:32You have a son?
Shocker
Pink Panther
October 17, 11:35You didn’t see the quotes around the ‘son’… lol
Peak
October 17, 10:27I’m sorry, but I won’t let that happen. Not because I’m a self hating man, but because it would kill me when the child is exposed to the aftermath of agreeing to do something that was suppose to make him happy momentarily.
I have experienced and tasted hate. I won’t standby and watch a young child (mine or not) witness that degree of dark-negative energy. Crying and being unhappy for a few days won’t kill him or her. Sometimes we just have to take harsh choices to protect the ones we love.
Dennis Macaulay
October 17, 10:58It’s a costume people! A costume!
It’s not his everyday dressing, just a costume at Halloween.
Some other kids will dress like monsters, some like wizards, some like animals.
It’s a costume for just one day!
Francis
October 17, 11:02LOL. The issue here seems to be the dress (costume) not if it’s a one day or everyday attire. Ain’t no way they are EVER letting their son wear a dress even if na play play.
Pink Panther
October 17, 11:06To show you how very much like everyone else in Nigeria even the gay people are.
Francis
October 17, 12:40We have a lot of evolving to do in the community.
Peak
October 17, 12:45@Dennis, I very well know and understand it’s a costume for a once in a year event/ceremony.
Just as I understand that it involves him going out to “trick or treat”. He is most likely going to be seen by playmates, classmates, neighbours and become a subject of ridicule and provide bullies with ammunitions to tear him/her down. That is my concern, and I believe that Chestnut share them too. We don’t per take in Halloweens, so imagine ur child, nephew going to a costume party dressed like this. Will u still allow it knowing what he would suffer afterwards?
This has nothing to do with being a transgender, a cross dressing, gender conflict issues and all the concepts I see being pulled from thin air. A lot of us played dress up as kids, albeit we saved the our outlandish looks for our immediate families who tolerated it, cos it made for a good LOL moments. Some of us did it in secrecy.
I think you guys are accusing the other side of the argument of the same thing you are doing…blowing it out of proportion.
Will I freak out if I have a gay child, nephew or neice? No!
Will I doing everything within my reach to protect them before and after they can do so on their own? **Add a FUCKING to my ** YES!
That is the argument here. Not the back hand wave u guys are giving it like it’s nothing.
Will you allow ur nephew dress up in a princess costume (Elsa is a princess, no?) for a birthday party?
Answer the above question HONESTLY! Then we can talk. Until then, all I’m reading is nothing but complete bull.
Pink Panther
October 17, 12:58Peak, how do u know those who gave their answers (like Sensei and Dimkpa) haven’t given their HONEST answers? By capping the ‘Honestly’, you seem to think that anyone who actually says he does not care one way or the other what his child chooses to express himself as in terms of clothing must be lying.
Why?
Because you appear to think every Nigerian thinks the same way, and must be a liar for expressing a more evolved progressive opinion.
Me for instance: I have gotten to that point in my life where I don’t give much credence to public opinion. I may care about them, but in no way am I letting it shape the decisions I make. So yes, if I have a son who wants to go to a birthday dressed as a princess, I’d let him be. I’d ask him, ‘Son, are you sure this is how you want to go dressed up as?’ If he is affirmative, then fine. Of course, I know there’s the risk of him getting ridiculed. But at the end of the day, my job as the parent is to be the backbone he leans on when he becomes miserable. Protecting your child by denying him what he identifies with only serves to make him a victim at a later time, when you’re not there to protect him.
Peak
October 17, 13:25First of all, calm down.
Secondly I didn’t know Sensei nor Dimpka had given their answers, because as at the time I started typing (and responding to Dennis) there was no such thing. You of all people as admin should know that there is a time span between typing and posting a comment. A lot of other activities go on unaware to indending commenters. So my “capped honesty ” wasn’t designed to water down any already made response, but thrown to every one in general with soecial emphasis on Dennis.
The question was even directed to Max cos I felt everyone is evading the question without knowing that Sensei has given his take on it.
Not every thing is designed to maim, hurt or water down people’s opinion you know, if you as an administrator can’t recognise that, I wonder what you expect from the commenters.
Pink Panther
October 17, 14:43Yes Peak. By all means, join the ranks and go after the ‘admin’. Veer from the issue and sprinkle the word ‘admin’ a few more times. Who knows, you might make it into the anti-admin Teflondon association.
Oluwadamilare Okoro
October 17, 13:34I totally agree with the comment above.
The main issue is not whether we/I have a problem with it … The main issue is that, this is a child and yes its what he wants and I want him to be free … But he is not emotionally ready for the backlash he will face for what he wants!
Now the parenting comes in…. You protect your LITTLE son (letting him understand why).
sensei
October 17, 13:42Peak, I think for question is far from that which is the topic of this post. This post is about allowing your child dress as a princess on halloween. Asking if I would want my child dress as a princess to birthday parties is a way bigger issue because this would be about allowing my child to be a cross dresser publicly from age 5. Apart from the fact that it’s a major decision, the amount of perpetual hate that would trail the child would be far more than that in the haloween party. As a parent, one has to weigh these things. And if I were to have a child who wants to crossdress from age 5, I would tread carefully. It’s not a simple YES or NO answer. This is me being realistic.
Peak
October 17, 14:14@Sensei, I’d like to begin by thanking you for treating this issue with utmost sincerity. I swear to God I come here to learn and I don’t joke with every piece of valuable information I pick up here. It not only brings me one step closer to self accepance with each read, but helps me see amd experience things through the eyes of others. Lately I’m beginning to lose faith in the things that float around here, because a great deal of these comments don’t translate/reflect in real life. It then becomes important to grab every piece of honest data you can get ur hands on, because they are fast becoming a rare commodity on KD.
Me choosing a birthday for the basis of my argument was borne out of the obvious fact that we don’t celeberate Halloween. A need to recreate the imagery associated with the discourse, became essential, so I went with the closest thing that came to mind. Sorry if it was a little far fetched, but you gave an interesting answer nonetheless.
Going by how far fetched a birthday sounds, I would go ahead and say if my son or ward wants to dress up like a princess to a carnival (we have those in Nigeria, don’t we?), then fine.
#Kumbaya
Max
October 17, 12:32Well, not surprised about the comments I’m seeing. It took some ppl over a million years to even accept themselves to some certain degree.
And please let’s stop lying and talking about the child’s welfare and how people are going to make fun of him. You’re worried about your own self, the shame you’ll feel. Stop projecting your own irrational fears and trying to justify it.
If it was a female child who wanted to dress up as Batman, I don’t think a lot of people will have problem with it.
This male-child-craze in Nigeria is crazy!!!
Peak
October 17, 13:01@Max , Yes I will feel some degree of shame cos I would be held accountable by society for bad parenting. Knowing what I know about hate and discrimination which has a way of amplifying it self with every new day. Would I be doing my ward and great service by allowing them to face something I still can’t go through unperturbed at this stage?
Since every one is dancing around the question, and u and ur “all accepting self” seems to be available. I am tbrowing the question at u. Will u allow ur SON (if you ever decide to have kids) dress up in a princess costume (Elsa) for a birthday (since we don’t celebrate Halloween). If that notion is too far fetched for you, will u allow ur nephew or any of ur male ward dress up in a princess costume for a birthday event?
Dennis Macaulay
October 17, 11:08If it were a girl who wants to wear a Robin Hood costume or a terminator costume I don’t think there will be all this plenty English we are speaking.
My friend adores Arya Stark from GOT but despises Justin from Ugly Betty for very obvious reasons.
This is a Halloween costume for crying out loud, just to go trick or treat! He is not deciding that his son can dress to school like this everyday.
Let me go back to bed, I can’t deal this morning
Mitch
October 17, 11:12*Protecting those we love!
*Inabilty to make wise decisions!
These are the exact same things our families have used to make our lives a living hell. They claim our minds are compromised by Satan and as such, we don’t want to make the ‘wise’ decision of stopping homosexuality. They claim they are only trying to protect us from allowing Satan/ourselves to mess our lives up. Yet, here we are today. Trying hard to live through the pain, hiding ourselves behind masquerades of straightness or disinterest in the opposite sex for the meantime. Hurt, yes but living and trying to be happy. It would be a damn shame, a very great shame if after all we have been through as gay people, we end up doing to the upcoming generation what was done to us. We would have totally defeated the purpose of passing through this pain if we do notlearn to spot, tolerate and most of all, understand difference when we meet it.. You don’t have to like it. You’ve just gotta accept it. Accept that you can never know the true sexual identity of a child, your child, when they are still in their formative years. Let them be who they feel they are because, they have their path which is totally different from yours.
We cry to the world, “Live and let live”. Today, I cry to us gay men, “Live and let live’. Don’t try to live another’s life for him especially not a child!
Pink Panther
October 17, 11:16Word!
Max
October 17, 11:17“CA: And no pikin of mine is turning into Caitlyn Jenner. Even if you have to be gay, you have to be mando biko. Do your runs in coded manner. I can’t deal!”
This comment above is exactly what is wrong with Nigerian gays.
Django
October 17, 11:55It is safe to say that Transphobia is more inherent among lesbians and gay people. Transgender people really shouldn’t seek solace among the LGB, we are a huge disappointment. It’s everywhere, on KD, RW(FB), NL, Reddit, Twitter, etc. The hate gay men and women display towards trans people make me hate myself and at times like this, I’m ashamed to be a member of the community. Heck, whenever it’s about trans people, I’m always ashamed I’m cis-gender.
Someone says something really hurtful towards Stephanie Rose on fb, offers a watered and freshly baked patriarchal, misogynistic, politically correct and compelled apology to her, and just because she’s trans, we’re supposed to let bygones be bygones? What a waste of sperm some gay people on RW are. You’re busy trying to prove to everyone that you should be taken serious and in the same breathe trying to furiously pull down another person, covertly and overtly, for not being as cis-gender as you are, for not believing what you believe and for not respecting other people’s religion? Imagine a stupid christian gay person saying god can touch the heart of a trans person who has strayed from his path and bring them back to christ. That non-existent thing christians serve don’t also approve of their homosexuality but they still serve it and shoving it down the “unbelievers” throat. People are insane. May sopona strike the first person that’ll say I just disrespected their deity.
Some heterosexual folks may be too much a douchebag for me to handle but it seems I expect too much from gay and lesbians.
William Shakespeare said not to put hope on people or expect ANYTHING from them, only then would they not have the power to disappoint you.
sensei
October 17, 12:16My dear, you deserve a kiss and hug. I had this same thought 2 days ago. As far as I’m concerned, what we call LGBT should be just LG because bisexuals and transgender people are obviously not accepted in the “LGBT” community.
kacee
October 17, 12:24Brother Sensei biko BACK OFF….
sensei
October 17, 12:27*gives kacee a kiss and a hug*
kacee
October 17, 12:22Shame on gay men and women who go against transgender rights. They(gay people) know how it feels to be discriminated against and yet they go around BLABBING their mouth its okay to be gay but to be transgender is rubbish. They don’t know how if feels to hate your sexual organ and cry daily saying God why am i a girl, why am i a boy?. It’s hurts when some people in the LGBT community who fight for equal rights feel being transgender is a stupid reasoning of wanting to remove something u were born with and replacing it with what you are comfortable with. Some people should just think before the talk.
Chizzie
October 17, 12:52If you must hate yourself for being cisgender, then by all means please do. I can’t pretend to sympathize or understand this transgender thing, why? Because it goes beyond more than a sex change. EVERYTHING about the person changes, every single thing. From the pronouns used in referring to them, to even your dealings and association with them. The memories you once shared with them also becomes tampered with. Its such a huge adjustment that you cannot blame people ( gay and straight) for not being completely open to it.
I also think to an extent it is a selfish thing to do. One is so concerned with getting a brand new sexual organ that they completely ignore how people around them will feel about it and then they expect and demand everyone to be comfortable with their new sex change. It just isn’t so.
If we all made such drastic decisions based on what we stand to gain alone then the world would be a very messed up place.
I do think that trans people are quite selfish. Yes they have the boobs they’ve always desired ( which btw are always bigger than the average woman’s ) and the vagina they’ve always craved for and do not mind showing it off on facebook like Stephanie Rose, but at what expense? It has cost them their family in most cases and their friends and its all because they did want they wanted to do. Can they brag that when the lights are off and they are all alone, that they are indeed truly happy?
Isn’t that why we haven’t come out? Yes there’s the 14 year thing, but ultimately we do not want to hurt the ones we love, so instead we choose to inconvenience ourselves which is a more noble thing to do, to me
So i certainly would not want my children to end of transgender. I will not.
Pink Panther
October 17, 13:01‘I also think to an extent it is a selfish thing to do. One is so concerned with getting a brand new sexual organ that they completely ignore how people around them will feel about it and then they expect and demand everyone to be comfortable with their new sex change.’
This is a very rich rhetoric.
Remove the allusions to sex change, and this may very well be the exact statement of a homophobe.
Chizzie
October 17, 13:13Really? So you’re implying that sexual attraction is equally a selfish thing? If i find someone of the same sex attractive I am not being selfish. Now if i did something drastic like abscond with a man and marry him against my parent’s wishes, then that’s arguably selfish.
Being overrall transgender, post or pre op, is too much of a drastic lifestyle and to a large extent it is selfish, that’s what I’m saying @PP
Pink Panther
October 17, 13:20This is actually the part I was stressing: ‘…ignore how people around them will feel about it and then they expect and demand everyone to be comfortable…’
Who you are attracted to, I’m sure you know, makes the world around you very uncomfortable. Is demanding for them to be okay with it not selfish of you, if I’m to go by what you’re saying?
Chizzie
October 17, 13:42I think gay guys would rather you be indifferent about it, than be entirely comfortable with our sexually. But its hard to even be indifferent when transgenderism ( hope that’s a word) is concerned because it is too much of a drastic lifestyle. So yes, they shouldn’t demand cisgender people become entirely comfortable abt it, because it is such a hard pill to swallow.
Francis
October 17, 15:52You seem to be living with way too many homophobes that they’ve started affecting your thought process. ??
If I were you, I’d cringe at the sight of all these your yarns months or years down the line.
Peak
October 17, 13:37Chizzie I’m sorry but the word mirror comes to mind after reading this.
Max
October 17, 18:48@Chizzy, shame doesn’t even come close to what I feel each time I read your homophobic, yes homophobic!! Comments.
You sound just like the rest of Nigeria, I bet you’re even happy about the anti-gay law that was passed.
Tufiagi!! .. The worst of the homophobes and transphobes isn’t the heterosexuals, its the homosexuals that should know better.
Tufia!!!!!
Chizzie
October 17, 19:12*Rolls eyes* Girl pls…
Theo
October 17, 12:08According to what Max said earlier ‘ What will be will be’. I strongly agree with that.
I don’t think a costume to Halloween party is enough to turn a child gay.
Flash back to the 90s, growing up I had a cousin who was always wearing his sister’s shoes and playing with dolls. While I was always this rugged football freak, I hated the sight of Barbie, Cinderella or snowhite cartoons.
Fast forward to 2015, My cousin is now married with 2kids (lm 99% sure he’s straight ) while me on the other hand is full blown gay ( you know the type of bottom that cums while taking the D without wanking? Yeah, that’s me.)
So, no matter how feminine or masculine u were while growing up, if your hormones are wired towards same sex, my dear u can’t escape it.
#My1stCommentOnKd
sensei
October 17, 13:32Welcome, Theo!
Theo
October 17, 13:43Thanks Sensible Sensei.
Francis
October 17, 15:49Chai! #OrgasmicGoals. ?
Jeova Sanctus Unus
October 17, 18:53Wellcum Theo.
Your comment was so touching I almost touched myself.
Wanna shoot some loops sometime? Maybe remake ‘Untouchables’?
Max
October 17, 20:52Back off hoes..
Welcome Theo ☺
sensei
October 17, 12:25Would I allow my son wear a dress to a halloween party? Yes I would. Do I know he could be names (eg “girlie”) by other kids. Yes I know. Would I let him wear the dress anyway? Yes I would. I would also stand by him and give him all the support he would need. Parenting is not always about not letting your child hurt. Sometimes you let them go out, knowing they will fall, and ready to pick them up and comfort them quickly. Would the dress make him a transgender person in future? I don’t think so. Honestly, I don’t even care. If my child is transgender, I would sit down and have a real heart to heart talk with him or her. When I realize that this child will not be happy without that sex reassignment surgery, I am so paying for it. And I would forever stand fiercely in support of my child.
#Chestnut
October 17, 12:46Sensei,u just won (more of) my admiration,for being able to give direct answer to d question.
sinnex
October 17, 12:59You can be whoever you want in the confines of our home, but you ain’t dressing like a Cinderella in public. I was a crossdresser at a point. I played with dolls and wore heels. Everything was just for fun. Especially when playing games and trying to prank other people. Just because a kid wants something, that doesn’t mean you should give him.
JustJames
October 17, 13:27Y’all talking about the aftermath and the name calling and all that.. Maybe you don’t know how much of a long way it would go to have your family support you on your decisions. I for one wouldn’t give a rat’s ass about what anyone says if my sexuality was a non issue at home.
And at what point is it okay to be selfish and when should we be selfless? If getting all your organs changed will make you happy go and fucking do it if you have the guts. It’s not your fault that your sex change is traumatising the people around you. They can either decide to evolve and adapt with and to the new you or get the heck out. Turning trans isn’t something you do on a mere whim.. You need to be ready to lose people and be very okay with that.
It’s not selfishness to decide to stay true to yourself.. Happiness is a choice.. The people who claim to love you can actually prove that they love you and stick with you and choose to be happy or carry their negativity and leave.
Oluwadamilare Okoro
October 17, 13:47I guess humans will be humans. There was a question and an answer is required.
There a ‘yes’ group and a ‘no’ group … Both with reasons for their answer.
Why can’t we just respect the answers and reasons given by the other group …. Without saying that’s not the REAL reason behind the answer.
The question was … What will YOU do? … It is bound to differ. We should learn to agree to disagree.
Delle
October 17, 13:58Here I am always having catty quarrels with my straight peeps on the LGBT issue. Here I am always hell-bent on clarifying the so-called straight fellas I come across on just how it is and how it feels to be something you have no control over. Here I am, completely oblivious of the fact that even in an enlightened group like this, we still have the same set of people I get even with on a daily basis.
I can’t seem to get over the question, ‘When will this internalized homophobia end?’. Do u guys just know how tough it is to be something your not comfortable with? How it feels when you know deep inside of you there’s a screaming girl and just because of a flimsy thing like a ‘dick’, you can’t answer the call of nature? When you talk, walk, sleep, breathe…it’s all alien to your physical being and here comes a solution, cosmetic surgery, to finally be who you have always been on the inside. Now because of the silly thoughts of some evil-meaning, religious-bias Nigerians, then someone should wallow in self-deceit all his life?! Some things cannot be contended with. Have u guys heard of the term ‘DEFEMINIZATION’? When u get enlightened on that, then we can talk.
I’m especially referring to u, Chizzie. *no spite intended*
Chizzie
October 17, 16:19Just because someone isn’t liberal as far as gay things are concerned doesn’t make them homophobic! I am certainly not homophobic and neither am i surrounded by homophobic people. The same also applies with being transphobic. I do not hate trans people, but i certainly will not what my children to be transsexuals.
Afterall the discussion is about parenting isn’t it? When i raise my children, i will apply a more conservative approach to raising them and I will not condone any transgender tendencies neither will i encourage it. It doesn’t make me transphobic, I just want the best for my children and i do not think them being transgender is the best for them, in terms of say, career opportunities, their social well-being etc. I don’t want them to be scorned and mocked by society. Just because it worked or seems like it did for Caitlyn Jenner, doesn’t mean its that rosy to transition.
Francis
October 17, 16:30And if the best you have for them is making them suicidal nko?
Chizzie
October 17, 16:48Who’s to say them becoming trans won’t make them suicidal too? They’re many suicidal trans people. I’m sure
Francis
October 17, 16:57At the least the chances of that happening is reduced markedly by months/years of PSY evaluations.
Chizzie
October 17, 17:19No,its not
Francis
October 17, 17:38So for your mind shrinks are overrated abi?
Mitch
October 17, 17:46Beat around the topic all you want, you still arive at the same conclusion – Prejudice! Your prejudice is, I’m sorry to say, not surprising seeing how you fall short of the ‘perfect’ standards you raised. What was that again you said about education, enlightenment and homophobia? Apply the same to yourself here and receive sense Chizzie! I rest my case.
Chizzie
October 17, 19:14Yes you’re right, maybe I am prejudiced against Trans people because I just don’t see them as paragons of society worth emulating. Does this make me transphobic? That’s debatable… But i wouldn’t want my children to be trans, its fine if you and everyone else want trans children, but I do not. And thats that!
Francis
October 17, 19:20#JesusIsLord
Nna I fear for you oh. I’ve always seen your twitter rants as crazy but fun in a way but now I wondering if YabaLeft (or somewhere tush) isn’t such a bad idea.
You can’t belong to a hated group and be making such vile statements against other groups.
Now I wonder if there were blacks that were against the end of slavery. Hmmmm
Jeova Sanctus Unus
October 17, 19:51But there are. Aplenty.
Ola
October 17, 19:32Chizzie is totally correct,any father that allows his male child to dress like a princess to a public gathering should be checked cuz he is not fit for parenting I would personally correct him or ask that the child be taken way from him by the authorities,a child should not be confused at an early stage, if he decides to be gay in the future that should be his choice meanwhile there are other ways of building a childs esteem not by cross dressing . I’m not being religious or traditional here it’s just raising a child in a normal way that goes right with society maybe some people here should stick to raising dogs cuz talking from experience it’s not an easy task.
kacee
October 18, 06:59warris this one saying(Ola)
Max
October 18, 10:38You sound a lot like someone I know @Ola. You’re a dangerous and foolish homophobe and your voice shouldn’t be allowed to thrive here. Being gay is not a choice, you dumb bimbo!!. No child grows up to choose to be anything.
You as a human being should be made an eunuch as you’re not fit to have a child, let alone parent one.
Wytem
October 18, 19:34@Max, please tone down on your insults.. They are unbecoming really. The man only aired his opinion as sensible or otherwise as we find it, its his entitlement. Just bryng in your ‘superior’ argument and move on. You neednt call him “foolish”!
Colossus
October 17, 17:59So if I don’t allow my son dress up as Elsa, I’m homophobic? Why do we like throwing that word around when one person does not agree with a particular “cause”?
How old is the child anyway? Is it ok to allow him make such a decision? When you the parent know the outcome of that singular act? Would I allow my son get dressed as Elsa? No. Though in all honesty, I think if Halloween has always been celebrated in this country, then maybe a lot of people won’t really fret over the issue. Halloween is about playing dress up as anybody really, the more outlandish the better.
Now for the boy, you’re the parent, most decisions are carried out by you. If you can do anything to prevent your child from ridicule, do it. It’s not homophobia, it’s parenting. There is a level of hate a parent should not expose his child to and if this singular act can expose him, then please don’t.
This is Nigeria, no level of being a progressive can prepare you or your child for that level of hate. In the US, you can allow that only if you know the kind of area you live in. New York, yes. Washington, you can too but don’t go exposing your child to such decision in Alabama, Mississippi or anywhere the homophobia is rife.
Max
October 17, 21:00I’m not surprised about your comment @Colossus( trust me, the rest of my thoughts about you are too ugly to spew here).
Everyone took the stand I’ve come to expect of them. Everyone on this blog didn’t disappoint.
Bravo to you all.
Colossus
October 18, 10:05Why don’t you spew it, you’ve always wanted to so why don’t you do it and move on. You’ll be better off for it. You chose your stand and I chose mine, do I have to choose yours to be right? It’s a discussion, each to his views.
Jeova Sanctus Unus
October 17, 19:01No one remembers the part of the father dressing up as Anna. Everyone forgets you can go trick or treating with your kid.
New Question: Would you let your daughter dress as Jack Sparrow to your church carnival?
Francis
October 17, 19:03?????????
ronniephoenix
October 17, 19:05For the sake of my peace of mind, I won’t begin a lecture about the difference btw cross dressing and being transgender.
Some bitches, seriously.
I dress the fuck how I like. Apply lip gloss, add castor oil to my lashes and brows.
Walk how I like, and do whatever.
People need to calm down their tits, like seriously.
I would support my child no matter what (unlike my parents).
I just wish my hair would grow faster, (I want it reaching my back) then I would be the rebel I am fully.
It took me several minutes to write this so I would add abusive words.
Thank you.
ronniephoenix
October 17, 19:08Rather, “wouldn’t add abusive words”.
@pink, this lucid dragons stuff, when would it begin.
Max
October 17, 21:20So some of you said some people didn’t really answer the question!!. Well, here’s my answer- YES!!.
I’ll allow my son to dress up as anyone he wants to be for a carnival oh or halloween etc and if anyone bats an eyelid at him, it’ll be the last thing they ever did with that eye. I will trash any parent or child who tries to make fun of him because of the way he dressed.
A dress is a dress people, long before man became civilized, there was no centralized dress code for men and women, people just wore what was comfortable. Man created dress codes and assigned certain dresses to certain sex. Its the same with color and the assumption that all males should like blue color or generally mute colors while females should like brighter colors. That right there is another topic for discussion and shows you how shallow humans are in creating something so silly as color codes for male and females.
In some societies boys are ridiculed for wearing pink. This whole color narrative is mostly directed at boys because girls can always wear any color and won’t get side eye from ignorant people. As a guy, I often get side eye in the office for my love of bright colors and pink/colored socks.
Does it bother me, hell no!!.
When you teach your children that its ok to be who they are and its ok to wear any cloth or color they like, you boost their self esteem and create an enabling environment for their emotional and mental well being.
If you tell that child that wearing a certain color isn’t gender appropriate or wearing a particular cloth isn’t, it gets internalized. And even if that child feels like putting on the color at some point in their life, they’ll be ashamed to do so because you’ve already made it a taboo in their mind, which is what all our parents did to us as gay people.
They told us being gay is bad and sleeping with other boys is a taboo and you’ll end up in the bottomless pit of hell, so as we grew up, the feelings came with it and we started being scared, ashamed of ourselves because our tuition about who we should love and be attracted to was inherently flawed. We started doubting ourselves, trying to change ourselves, cried ourselves to sleep for weeks, but it didn’t stop.
Every day of our life, all we could hear was the voice of our parents condemning us for being such failures, for being a total disappointment and taboo.
Please(for people who want to have kids), let’s not make their life a living hell just like our parent’s did. It’ll be a shame for a gay man to give birth to a depressed child, or worse a homophobe because they played a part in obscuring the child’s belief.
Delle
October 17, 22:50I really didn’t wish I’d ever say this to you Max (we’ve had our differences) but I guess I can’t get past being on the same page with you (finally).
I don’t know why the female folks have more societal flexibility than the guys? Why would a girl with muscles, sagging pants and a springy walking step be appraised but a guy with opposite features be shammed?!
For goodness’ sakes, girls wear trousers, originally supposed to be a guy’s, and this is seen as a very cute fashion sense but no guy (dem no born you well) can wear skirt, at least not here in Nigeria! Girls have even gone to the extent of creating their own brand from our original clothing and called it BUM-SHORTS! Which guy would wear this and not get ridiculed? (Forgetting a short is a short!). It’s such a shame that this societal (nature-driven) prejudice reigns supreme. I really need us to be more accepting to the male folk. What’s that thing in a guy sef dat screams RIGIDITY!
We need to let our kids be (male kids esp). No one should put a label on his male child…no one! It makes no sense whatsoever.
And Chizzie, every single statement you make here reduces my IQ by 2%! Seriously, are you really trying your best to back up your premises or you just want to feel your keypads?! How could you say your not transphobic but you don’t see them as ‘paragons’ in the society?! Your not transphobic and yet won’t CONDONE a likelihood of transsexuality in ur child?! How ironical! You kow what…I can’t deal. Obviously, you already have lots to handle from the members of this forum, you need no addition!
Kester
October 18, 06:33Haha haha haha haha haha please you guys should leave chizzie alone. It’s his opinion. And max I love you to pieces but everyone must have an opinion. Which may change in say……. the next five years or anytime in between. All I can belatedly say here is please let us not allow our children (when we decide to have them) run amok on account of how repressed we felt while growing up and we should know that our children will be individuals on their own resemblance may just be skin deep. Children have to be guided, led, fed, taught etc do the best you can without trying to prove how evolved you are. On other unrelated matters has anyone noticed how rag days in university is turning to drag days? People I would never ever believe would do so use the opportunity of rag day to cross dress albeit with exaggerations that are comical. I was telling my friend the other day that rag day now is an excellent opportunity to buy market (he is into twinks)