Let’s Discuss…About Homosexuality and Incest
The following is a concern expressed by a KDian which, I’d have to admit, I was stumped for an opinion when he brought it up with me. I couldn’t believe that I had never thought about it enough to form an opinion about it. So here we are, read and sound off in the comments section.
*
So I just finished reading a novel, a gay novel, and it’s filled me with questions.
The novel, Brothers Without Borders by Leiland Dale, was an interesting read but the narrative quite disturbing as it was controversial.
Two brothers in love – not familial love but romantic, lust-filled and sincere affection.
I’ve always had in mind that there’s a clear-cut difference between incest and homosexuality especially when during arguments with homophobes, they bring it up. “If you support homosexuality, then you should support incest.”
However my stance, I’ve never really been entirely convinced as to why I’ll reject incest as against my conviction whenever it’s bestiality or rape or paedophilia in question.
Most times, my stance revolves around the premise that incest, scientifically speaking, begets deformity.
But that’s all.
Now, this novel is about two brothers. Of course the case of offspring deformity is not applicable here because neither of them would be carrying a child fertilized by their reproductive cells. And if this point of discomfort is out the door, does it make it right that two brothers can be in love? If so, if there can be brothers without borders, why should that be a homosexual prerogative? Why kick against heterosexual incest, all things being equal? A man and his sister could very well decide not to have kids too so as not to have any such biological regression.
What then?
A part of the novel says:
“Why be bothered about what people would say about us when they would never understand just how much we love each other and how true it feels?”
I can relate to this and for that I want to accept their love. Two brothers can be in love – and yet, something repels the thought. And worse still, there’s no justifiable reason for the way I am feeling.
A friend of mine would say, “Shebi we are saying ‘Live and let live’. Why again do you want to police the decision of a brother and sister to be together?”
But I would opine that this is a false justification. It’s as though because we are in a prejudiced clime, we can’t have and uphold some moral standards. I am not filth for being gay and as such, I can discipline the wrong things of life.
But incest appears to be a dicey issue with me, and this novel just makes it all the more confusing to me. And that is why I had Pink Panther bring it up here, so I can learn from the varying opinions that abound on this platform.
Is incest really terrible? How do you feel about incest generally? What are your thoughts on homosexual incest?
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41 Comments
Ken George
October 14, 05:50While youre at it, why shouldnt a father be allowed to bang his daughter. Dont let us stop at siblings. By the way, grandma be looking gorgeous these days with those her fluttering wrinkled skin and flat saggy boobs. ..like eeeeeew!
Personally even the sight of a family member’s nakedness sends feelings of violent nausea down my spine, let alone even touching one. Gross!!
Pink Panther
October 14, 07:35Do you think you can set aside your disgust and walk us through your aversion for incest. The topic isn’t here for us to react reflexively with disgust but for us to examine our different opinions carefully and understand why we feel the way we do.
Besides, at the end of the day, all you may feel is a knee-jerk reaction to a kind of intimacy you don’t understand… You know, sort of like a straight person would react to his lack of understanding of men who find other men attractive…
Delle
October 14, 10:15I wonder Ken, just how you think you tackled the question that’s been brought forward. You only ended up acting like the typical Nigerian who is overly disturbed by the fact that something he has always known to be a certain way is suddenly challenged.
Do you not want to challenge yourself sometimes? Challenge the existing norms? No one is saying you should look at your father or grandma lustfully. But there are those who do so and do not feel a pang of guilt, are they vermin for feeling that way?
That’s the crux of this post.
We are not here to drum on your sentiments.
Ken George
October 14, 10:42Well first of all this is not an exam so i do not need to “tackle” any question. But even if i wanted to, no offence, but no one made you my examiner. And no, i do NOT want to challenge not screwing mum or daddy dearest. Its repulsive and down right disgusting! Parents and kids have their role to play in society, fucking each other aint one of them. So am going to have to say a big fat NO to incest!
BRYAN PETERS
October 14, 13:45Then if it’s all about being repulsive, you have no moral justification to condemn homophobia because you are doing the exact same thing_looking at persons who are to incest as being abnormal. Consequently, you have given a go ahead to people to look down on you with disgust because you don’t conform to their standards. I mean I thought twas common logic that those who live in glass houses should not throw stones ?
Ken George
October 14, 20:35Still gross and disgusting…..
Foxydevil
October 14, 13:55Lol, I’m starting to love this boy.
I love your honesty, it is refreshing.
Mandy
October 14, 15:02You’re sure its his so-called honesty you find refreshing? 🙂
Malik
October 14, 06:19I have even more questions: Does being gay, the second letter in LGBT… mandate that you understand, rationalize and accept all the other letters? I often ask myself, do I accept to be accepted?
Where and on what basis do you draw the line between who to and who not to love; how to and how not to love? How open should the open-minded mind be? If you’re nonreligious what forms these standards?
Why? Why not?
Pink Panther
October 14, 07:31The first paragraph of your comment…. Please tell me you’re just kidding with that. Please tell me you’re not honestly wondering if you should be accepting of lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people. Please tell me you don’t honestly find it conditional for you to understand that other sexual minorities deserve the same rights as you as a gay man does and that your recognition of them as deserving human beings should be without question.
trystham
October 14, 07:10There is no qxn I wanna ask about this incestuous ppl that will not be countered by questions str8 ppl ask homosexuals, but seriously, it just feels plain wrong to me. Its so bad, I can’t imagine brothers or sisters fucking the same person without cringing.
Delle
October 14, 10:17That’s disgust you feel. Doesn’t justify it’s being wrong or right.
trystham
October 14, 13:32Perhaps it is. But frankly, until studies in genetics prove that people are wired to be incestuous as it has proved homosexuality, biko let me hold on to my disgust. The future portents don’t look so good with Sensei’s predictions if we have to be accepting of EVERYTHING just because we av bin in the minority for so long.
as-I-am
October 14, 07:24I don’t believe in incest
Pink Panther
October 14, 07:32That’s why this issue is up for discussion today. Please tell us why. Tell us your views.
Delle
October 14, 10:19Believe? Wrong choice of words. It’s not a religious body.
Oh well.
Explain your stance. Why do you not think incest is something that should be indulged in?
Kainene
October 14, 07:46okay i look at it and i realize I’ve gone through this issue severally in my head even before it was brought up here, and i cant find a credible reason why siblings shouldn’t be together…the instinctive disgust comes to mind immediately i think about it but then again i believe its a result of programming…the same thoughtless programming that inspires disgust in d mind of the average homophobe who gags at the thought of two men/women together. Put aside every sort of pre- installed knowledge and there’s simply no concrete reason why incest is wrong. I’ve always said the basic problem of humanity is the fact that we have defined terms and set rules for every damn thing.
Delle
October 14, 10:19???
Jaja
October 14, 08:53While “live and let live” suggests that everybody should be allowed to love who they want to love, I think that incest comes with — given biological repercussions if there’s offspring — an added responsibility. I’m not even sure I believe the last part of my first sentence, but it’s worth considering. What is “incest”? Does it mean only sexual relations between siblings, or that plus the social stigma attached to it? People have been marrying their siblings since time began, only it was acceptable within specific cultures. The stigma attached to queer love is unjustified. The stigma attached to sexual relations between siblings varies depending on the culture, and biology alone is a formidable block against its social rationalisation. What do I think about incest? I don’t. I don’t care, but I won’t be supporting it in my extended family due to said biological repercussions with offspring — in the same way I would respect, but not support, the decision of two adults who are SS but insist on having a family. But if cultures can accept incest, then “homosexual incest” means nothing aside the pairing of two socially feared phenomena.
Delle
October 14, 10:23But what if there is no biological blockade? No offspring in the offing? None of them wanting to parent a child? What would you say then? Cos it seems to me that, despite all you wrote, you kept revolving around the biological kick-back of incest.
Foxydevil
October 14, 09:10The key word here is “consent ”
If you believe in your heart as a gay man that the feelings you have, is not morally wrong or deleterious, but something that should be given a chance to blossom into something beautiful, then I see no way you should be against incest.
Now let’s see (sips a little juice), (dreams of kissing pinky’s full ?), (thinks about how to run over trrystham with a car)
Point 1
Many studies have proven that there is very little likelihood that children who grew up together between the ages of 0 to 6 can be attracted to each other. There is something called “histone actyltransferase ” which helps in genetic expressions. Chances of people who share the same genetic history developing concupiscence ,is actually very little but here are some things that can play a role as major determinants :
Psychological disposition.
Environmental impact.
Societal norms and standards.
Point 2
If you have read any novel by “VC Andrew” you would know that incest plays a strong role in her characterization and plots.
In” flowers in the attic ” two siblings were constantly locked up and tortured ,till they started developing feelings for each other. Their sufferings conditioned them to see one another as their last recourse ,thereby developing strong feelings that subsequently turned sexual.
Some cultures permit marriages between siblings…. in the widely popular TV show “Game of thrones” everyone frowned at Cersai and Jamie’s incestuous relationship but were quite receptive of Jon snow hooking up with his aunt ,not only does this further call out the hypocrisy of men but it shines a broader light, that when incest is packaged favorably, that people can be quite receptive of it.
The greatest detraction we suffer when advocating the acceptance of gay sex and Marriage Equality Is the presumption that everyone in a gay relationship was genetically conditioned to be gay.
That is a huge lie!
Two straight men or women can develop very strong feeling for each other ( see” The body” by Stephen King)
People abused as kids by either sex can experience a reverse in sexuality by subsequently hating the gender that abused them, thereby embracing another sexuality or can embrace the gender that abused them, and start practicing that sexuality .
A strong case would be prisons and boarding schools were very straight men due to lack of the opposite sex, start engaging in sexual overtures and practices with the same gender.
In conclusion.
Sexuality is complex .
It will be a boondoggle, to review and dissect all the sexualities practiced by men and the reasons that necessitated them.
Several conditions, situations etc push people to practice( ordinarily) what they wouldn’t have practiced.
As long as a minor isn’t involved, someone is not getting raped, someone isn’t being blackmailed to have sex or in the case of (weinstain ) someone isn’t using their power to subjugate others into sexual acts, then it is best to leave it alone.
Even if you don’t approve of it, don’t judge it.
?.
quinn
October 14, 09:47I’ve made out with my brother as a kid, we’ve completely tossed that memory aside because we were kids, I for one can’t speak on this because I don’t understand the whole concept, but personally I can’t have anything to do with a sibling that is of a sexual nature. Although, I could have a healthy conversation with someone who is involved in it.
Delle
October 14, 10:25Cool
Absalom
October 14, 10:49(“Natural” does not mean right/desirable. Nor does “unnatural” mean wrong/undesirable.)
The biological argument against heterosexual incest sounds too much like the health-scare arguments against homosexuality (HIV, HPV, warts etc) We see your point ??? but is that enough reason to stop people from being/expressing themselves?
People suddenly want to roboticize human behaviour just so they can keep their bigotry intact. Tomorrow they’ll claim they are the most complex animal species. Well, act like it now. ????? Incest is not my business. Even if they want to have kids. It happens and will continue to.
I’m not interested.
Ojukwu Jeff
October 14, 11:27During a live interview on planet TV with Jon Ogah, a tweeter user posted a comment that Jon (ex bbn housemate) and I quote “he looks gay sha”. Y’all need to see the look on jon’s face though he gave a very intelligent respond to the comment.
himbo
October 14, 16:20Relevance to the topic?
Sensei
October 14, 11:35I am not going to say if I think incest is right or wrong, but I only came to offer perspectives. These are for your consideration:
1. Incestuous attraction and intercourse is commoner than we think. In most cases of child sexual abuse, the abuser is a relative. Research has shown that co-socialization early in life (i.e. growing up together) inhibits sexual attraction especially in women, to a much lesser extent in men.
2. There are two ways to label a thing as wrong (or right). First is feeling. You can say a thing is wrong because you just FEEL it is wrong. Or you can judge a thing is wrong because of how you react emotionally to it. This is the case when homophobes say they find same-sex intercourse disgusting. Emotional judgment. When on the other hand you say incest is wrong because such relationships can give rise to genetic defects, then this is a practical, logical reason. I’m only saying this to bring to our awareness which of these methods we are using when we judge anything including incest.
3. Concerning another sexual behavior (zoophilia) that we consider wrong. I find it amusing that we see nothing wrong with raising animals in captivity and in the most deplorable conditions, sometimes in spaces with barely enough leg room. In fact we have genetically modified them so make them more satisfying when killed and eaten. Every single day on this planet, millions of animals are killed (and not mercifully). Yet when we hear that a man had sex with a goat, we immediately cry out about how this is wrong and disgusting. Some even say it is cruelty to animals. Others begin to speak of “consent” and the animal’s incapacity to provide it. Funny, right?
4. The world is changing. There was a time when it was okay to say something was wrong just because you felt it was wrong or because your parents said so. These days we ask for proof and logic when you make any assertion. We now argue that just because something disgusts you does not make it wrong (sounds so basic right? Yet see how long it took us to get here). We have used this to argue against homophobia. The truth however, is that we who make this arguments still have one or two things that we judge wrong on the basis of feeling not fact. Just as we have used this argument against homophobia and are winning slowly, others in the future will use this same argument against our sentimental judgments in the future (and will very likely win too). Some will argue that the opened this “rational approach to sexuality” door. I predict that it will gradually let in much more than we expected. Are you ready for the future? LOL
Foxydevil
October 14, 13:03? ? ? ? ?
Brain and beauty. ?
trystham
October 14, 13:25That is one future that scares thr bejeezus out of me.
Foxydevil
October 14, 13:53Senseibeauty, you are all shades of inspiring.
So mature, good looking, well behaved and well spoken.
I wonder the lucky man dating someone as charming and beautiful as you are.
That’s the luckiest person ever. ?
I don’t even know the person and I’m already jealous ?.
Pink Panther
October 14, 15:00“So mature, good looking, well behaved…”
All these presumptions of a person from a mere well-constructed comment. You must tell me how you’re able to tell a person is good looking or bad looking from his comments. You simply must share your secret.
Foxydevil
October 14, 16:26Lol.
I know men like the back of my hands.
Let’s see ?
I know he is handsome because you have a crush on him (unrequited perhaps) maybe the both of you have dated in the past or maybe not, but….
Somehow, somewhere you two might have settled in as just casual friends but I can tell you want more ? and look at your list ,Idris Elba, lynxxx, that’s quite a standard to match.
I know he is mature because he didn’t take credit for a very noble act (very worthy of emulation) instead he rebuffed the person that posted it (at that point he was more worried about the kids than personal glory)
That is sensitivity, that is maturity.
I know he is well behaved because of how he writes. Something about the arrangement of his words and expression of his points seems very tactful.
Not someone ruled by passion but restrictions borne out of conditioning and experience. (why do I have the feeling he works in the medical field or something)
And I think he’s a good person because in his heart he believes he can make a difference. His kindness is not an act of selfishness but one borne out of purity of heart and a little bit of delusion .
He has exceptional faith in humanity and the gay community, and somewhere in his heart he actually believes that if he can give a little bit of himself everyday, he could make a difference (?)
And last but not the least, I have a feeling he is traditional. He looks like someone that would date one person at a time, always insist on protected sex and would randomly engage you in an intellectual discussion .
No wonder the two of you make perfect friends .
You’re nothing alike .
Don’t get me wrong, you both are wonderful non _fiction writers and you both are book smart (clearly) but…..
He has intricacies, you on the other hand, you’re way too obvious.
Pink Panther
October 14, 17:59How brilliant. How absolutely brilliant. I’m breathless with astonishment at your sheer intuition.
Yazz Soltana
October 15, 20:42I think you Foxy is a low-key sociopath……
WhoIsUgo
October 14, 12:50I actually don’t have a problem with incest.
WhoIsUgo
October 14, 12:50It’s just a little weird because it’s not common
himbo
October 14, 16:15Didn’t Adam and Eve’s children fuck/marry each other? Ask a typical Christian this question and prepare to be blown away by the nonsensical explanations. Abraham and Sarah were siblings as well. It boils to societal norms and the programming we get. I mean ancient Egyptian royalty married each other and nobody batted an eyelid. I have no problem with what CONSENTING ADULTS choose to do with their genitals. If they choose to procreate and are aware of the risk factors that’s on them.
trystham
October 14, 19:35No wonder we have so many crazies. Adam and Eve’s children alone populated the earth? Let us remember Cain took a wife from a nation that sprung up suddenly from nowhere. Kindly tell us again how the world is incestuous
Sens8
October 14, 23:22Like everything we have been taught about relationships and love, incest is one hard nut to crack. Granted, there are societal transgressions that accompany incest but it still hasn’t been understood because there are very few who will openly admit to being in a romantic relationship with a direct sibling or offspring. In the case of heterosexual incest, the risk of inbred genetic malformation is one that is well documented (European Royalty in the 19th century but even that was between cousins). Although it’s slightly easier to wrap one’s head around incest between siblings than between forebears and offspring, the truth is that, genetically, there is a bit more variation between forebears and offspring than between siblings but the thought of shacking up with an offspring appears more revolting than shacking up with a direct sibling. Like the author rightfully pointed out, this doesn’t hold true in homosexual incest, so there still is a lot to process on why it scares people so.
But I digress. My point is, no matter the initial discomfort we feel towards something, we first have to understand what it is. First instinct isn’t always the shining light in the dark for right or wrong especially when it comes to things that have been selectively ingrained into our psyche. As we cannot help who we fall in love with and as long as it isn’t predatory or involves the absence of wilful consent, we need to tread carefully on how we approach such relationships.
Ladipo
October 16, 09:23So far it is consensual and not that a party is being abused or is a minor, I really don’t have a problem with it. I do not see myself engaging in such though but I’ve come to understand that we humans are wired differently.
Tobby
October 16, 16:54Incest is kinda messed up, but it’s not something I’d actively kick against