T.D. Jakes Speaks Of ‘Evolving’ Position As He Comes Out for ‘Gay Rights’ and ‘LGBT Churches’
Megachurch leader and author T.D. Jakes says that homosexuals should attend congregations that affirm their lifestyle and that politics do not need to reflect biblical ethics, adding that his position on homosexuality is both “evolved and evolving.”
During a recent interview with the Huffington Post, Jakes was asked by a viewer if he believes that homosexuals and the black church can co-exist.
“Absolutely… I think it is going to be diverse from church to church. Every church has a different opinion on the issue and every gay person is different,” he replied. “And I think that to speak that the church—the black church, the white church or any kind of church you wanna call it—are all the same, is totally not true.”
Jakes said that he thinks homosexuals should find congregations that affirm their lifestyle.
“LGBTs of different types and sorts have to find a place of worship that reflects what your views are and what you believe like anyone else,” he outlined.
“The church should have the right to have its own convictions and values; if you don’t like those convictions and values [and] you totally disagree with it, don’t try to change my house, move into your own … and find somebody who gets what you get about faith,” Jakes added.
He said that the issue of homosexuality is “complex.”
“Paul spends a lot of time wrestling back and forth, trying to understand should a woman wear a head covering, should you cut your hair,” Jakes stated. “I mean, they grappled back then and we’re grappling now because we’re humans and we are flawed and we’re not God.”
“Once you understand you’re not God, you leave yourself an ‘out’ clause to grow,” he said.
When asked if his position on homosexuality has “evolved,” Jakes agreed that it has.
“Evolved and evolving,” he replied. “I think that where I am is to better understand we, the church, bought into the myth that this is a Christian nation.”
Earlier this year, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that states must legalize same-sex “marriage,” igniting a battle between the Church and State over the issue. In his comments on Monday, Jakes advocated for the separation of Church and State, which would allow for “all types of people” to have whatever rights they desire despite biblical prohibitions. He said that politics don’t need to be based on Christianity.
“Once you get past thinking America is a Christian nation … Once you begin to understand that democracy—that a republic actually—is designed to be an overarching system to protect our unique nuances, then we no longer look for public policy to reflect biblical ethics,” Jakes explained.
“If we can divide—or what you would call separation of Church and State—then we can dwell together more effectively because atheists, agnostics, Jews, all types of people, Muslims, pay into the government. The government then cannot reflect one particular view over another just because we’re the dominant group of religious people in [this] country because those numbers are changing every day,” he asserted. “We need a neutralized government that protects our right to disagree with one another and agree with one another.”
Jakes had visited the Huffington Post to discuss his new book on “destiny.” The interview focused on motivational subject matter in following one’s dreams and passions as opposed to the eternal destiny of the soul.
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26 Comments
Brian Collins
January 10, 06:23Seperation of church and state though would change a lot of things. Heck, separation of religion and state would change a lot of things.
Kenny
January 10, 06:27If only more religious leaders could try to evolve like this, the world will be a better place. So many people do not have a mind of their own but look up to their religious leaders and one of the ways homophobia can be eradicated is by religious leaders speaking out like this. Imagine if one or more of these general overseers in Nigeria condemns homophobia.. …. .
Dennis Macaulay
January 10, 07:18“If we can divide—or what you would call separation of Church and State—then we can dwell together more effectively because atheists, agnostics, Jews, all types of people, Muslims, pay into the government. The government then cannot reflect one particular view over another just because we’re the dominant group of religious people in [this] country because those numbers are changing every day,” he asserted. “We need a neutralized government that protects our right to disagree with one another and agree with one another.”
*drops mike*
ken
January 10, 07:51Worefa
I still wont go to any church. Period.
Peak
January 10, 07:54For some weird reason, I can’t help but feel that he is being too politically correct. His views sounds like a properly rehearsed speech. His views about homosexuality has changed, evolved and evolving which js a great thing. Its equally impossible to miss the undertone of how homophobes should be allowed to uphold their views and if u as a homosexual don’t like whats being preached in one church, then find another church that upholds ur values.
A fair and resounding speech…that is if it was coming from a politician, but from a man of God? I expect better.
I’m sorry, but I don’t think politics/ government can be seperated form religion. Politics/government is a machinery that aids the running of a society and its component parts which is geared towards maintaining law, order and the general development of society as well as the good of the people. Religion and its various factions is one of the many components of a society and are subjected to the prevailing laws of the society. What politics does not do, is take away free will, so I don’t know what big daddy is talking about. The law does not force u to stop preaching against homosexuality or made it mandatory for you and ur congregation to be all embracing and accepting. It is ur perogative to hold whatever views u want, the law just seeked to protect the yearnings and rights of some group that it “feels” needs protectiing. Like he said, if you aren’t cool with the views of a particular congregation, find one that reflects and uphold ur views and believes. Him saying “The government then cannot reflect one particular view over another ” is just off. The government is a law making body and mandated to protect the rights of people. He kept going on and off.
I respect his views as a human being, I just kind of expect more from a man of God. Maybe I’m the one demanding way too much. There is hope though since his views are still “evolving”. Good news nonetheless, we will get there with time.
Dennis Macaulay
January 10, 08:11I actually agree with him if this is really what he believes ;
1; laws should not be made on the basis of religious sentiments. When Jonathan signed that bill into law many people who supported it said that the major religions of Nigeria do not endorse homosexuality. I remember I kept saying that Nigeria is a secular state and remains so, we cannot be making laws because they appeal to proponents of a said religion no matter their numbers.
2. I also do agree with him the the context of churches being allowed to make their own doctrine. If a church will not marry you and a man, find a church that will. Their is a strong debate now on protecting churches that refuse to perform same-sex marriages because at the end of the day they reserve that right and should not be forced to do it.
3. I agree that this reeks of political correctness and a desire not to offend, but I quite agree with it!
Peak
January 10, 08:351. I quite agree with you on point one …that is if we are discussing or dealing with an ideal society. Nigeria and it’s polital elites seems to pick their way through policies and issues of governance, hence why a sizeable proportion of their agendas are of lil or no import to the common man. So my argument is based on the US and the supreme court ruling.
2. I totally agree on that count. If and only if its rest on church’s readiness to wed or engage pro LGBT activities. I would just have better luck swallowing this view if it came from someone else but a high profiled man of God (IMO). Something about it just says he is trying to preserve the old values of the black community views on homosexuality.
At the end of the day I expect a man of God to sound like a man of God. Affirmative and have a sound judgement with a good dose of open mindedness and empathy. All I got was a sales pitch from a sales man who is trying to win new customers and expand his fan base while trying to retain his old customers.
I still count it as a win though. His views are evolving and he has the right to take his time in reaching the point of complete understanding and acceptance. Progress is being made regardless and that’s all that matters.
Dennis Macaulay
January 10, 08:56Ignore the messenger, accept the message! Many American pastors are using style to shift ground as they do not want empty pews and reduced dollars.
Do we know if they are genuinely evolving or saying what they think is the acceptable thing to say? No!
However this shouldn’t be a dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t. That other old man, what’s his name again; Pat Robertson! If that one spews we attack him, we also attack those who try to be open minded a bit, which one we come dey na? Lol
I am guilty ooo because on this blog I was criticising Hillary Clinton for being fake until recently, I mean even if her support for LGBT rights is a ploy to get into the white house but at the end of the day the support is there and she matches her words with actions? Nobody cares about the intent of her heart.
Bishop Jakes hit a few right notes with this interview, the separation of church front state will go a long way in fixing things and I am glad it came from him!
Pink Panther
January 10, 09:17Before I came to your Hillary Clinton paragraph, I was going to whip that up and clobber you over the head with it. 😀 But I’m glad you’re learning and letting go of those your prejudices. See how easy it is to simply believe and not be so cynical?
Dennis Macaulay
January 10, 09:34I know you were waiting to pounce on me an, which is why I went ahead of you!
You see why my God is bigger than your own?
Pink Panther
January 10, 09:37Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaa!!! You mean the one that’ll let you sail into heaven on a hoverboard?
keredim
January 10, 11:17@Peak, it is a step in the right direction. If this interview can change the mindset of ONE, ONE!!!! bible clenching, black-american homophobe, then I think his job is done.
It is good that his thinking has “evolved” and is “evolving”. Going by his background, it is a miracle.
Mr. Fingers
January 10, 09:33He is trying to sell his book biko.
Mitch
January 10, 10:13Pastor Jakes has always struck me as a smart man. This, to say the least, is what I expected from him and Joyce Meyer last year.
Absalom
January 10, 10:21In the US, church and state has been separate since the 19th century (Thomas Jefferson’s days at least) so T.D. Jakes sounds like he’s just waking up.
“The church should have the right to have its own convictions and values; if you don’t like [it]…don’t try to change my house, move into your own.” —-> You see, that’s the problem.
What’s now the need to fight to demand our rights if it is now okay to be a bigot?
This is not a debate between apples and oranges; it is a debate between apples and poisonous berries. If LGBT rights are human rights then they are not negotiable and it cannot be okay to have any institution (church or not) that “disagrees” with these rights. Isn’t that a crime somewhere?
Why is he upholding “biblical prohibitions” against the backdrop of LGBT rights?
Nobody ever thinks of privileging the racist’s “convictions and values”. Nobody ever advocates for black people and white racists to “dwell together”. But it seems when it comes to LGBT rights, it’s a different set of standards. #Tired.
Mandy
January 10, 10:58This comment is everything!
Rapum
January 10, 11:09Thank you! When e reach our own, then there have to be compromises and middle grounds. That’s warped thinking. The tragedy really is that we buy into this lie about our rights being negotiable. There is nothing laudable about this.
Delle
January 10, 10:33Okay, where is the T.D Jakes I know?! So these scientists have finally succeeded in cloning a human being because this change is so amazing!
He’s so right in all ramifications anyway. I think even gay men need a God to look unto, a sovereign being no matter what. More than 70 percent of gays do not go to church because the Christian doctrine goes against our belief, this should change.
Sometime ago, there was an entry where someone gave his own understanding of the bible, backed up with passages and concrete logic. If such person should climb that flower-filled pulpit and minister, we’d all make good use of our Sundays.
T.D Jakes is right. I can’t deceive myself by saying I want to go to church when all I’d hear is, ‘If you see a guy with any piercing at all, his nose or tongue or ear, run away from him! He’s an agent of Lucipher, looking for how to shatter your bum hole, totally disregarding what the female vagina is made for. Homosexuals are cursed. Useless scums of the earth that do not deserve a chance at life!’ I’d just sit tight, cringing, shuddering and sweating (no matter how air conditioned the hall is) while trying to keep a straight face for my oblivious mum sitting next to me. Who says that? My priest!
This whole idea that all gay guys are bum hole ‘shatterers’ is just funny. If only they know how daft they sound…
So you see, I can’t handle that anymore. So I’m in total support of what T.D Jakes said.
Teflondon
January 10, 10:37In yall faces religots!!
This is an accepting christain. Not all christains are the same. Stop putting all of us in a box.
T.D Jakes one of my best pastor of all time. If not the best. I love the man. Period.
Ichie RedEyes
January 10, 10:56“ If we can divide — or what you would call
separation of Church and State — then we can
dwell together more effectively ”
Beautiful !!!!
Tobby
January 10, 11:45Agreed
Chuck
January 10, 13:43Interesting how he finally understands the principle of separating church and state WHEN it is in his financial/commercial interest.
Is this a “man of God” or the CEO of a company flogging a product and trying to protect its brand’s image?
maybe homosexuality will only be respected when heterosexuals discover a need to have homosexuals as allies in business or politics.
ambivalentone
January 10, 15:30lol Be nice Chuck. Benefit of doubt tinz?
keredim
January 10, 15:36How can he be nice??
Its a “Man of God” moving towards reconciling being gay and christian. Tufiakwa?
Pink Panther
January 10, 16:24LMAO! I just knew Chuck would make an appearance. Christianity a la homosexuality is a meal he can’t ever resist.
TD Jakes Sermons
November 21, 18:08Great and amazing